Employee Engagement Dialogue on Mattering with Angela Maiers and David Zinger

Mattering: An employee engagement dialogue with Angela Maiers and David Zinger

Employee Engagement and Mattering from David Zinger on Vimeo.

David Zinger: Hi, my name is David Zinger, welcome to an employee engagement dialogue. It’s my privilege and honor to have Angela Maiers here, and we’re going to talk about mattering. Angela, I have a slide with some more formal background about you, but why don’t you say a few words about yourself? [00:18]

Angela Maiers: Well, I’m super excited to be here, and David, I’ve been a fan of yours for… I was trying to think of when we first connected, and is it six years? [00:30]

David Zinger: Yeah, it was probably through Rosa and JJL (Joyful Jubilant Learning). [00:33]

Angela Maiers:  Yeah, it was that, and I had the privilege of writing with you on Joyful Jubilant Learning, and have been like a raving fan since, and to watch The Employee Engagement Network grow, and then to be able to bring a conversation back to this is really an honor and treat for me. So, I have been a really passionate educator for about 25 years and my background is linguistics and literacy from the perspective of culture, and the perspective of communities, so social media has never been about anything other than amazing communities and really watching how the conversation not just from a technology perspective, but from the way that we have blurred the lines between our offline conversations and our online, and how our communities have grown and been enriched by that. So, it’s just been the most beautiful evolution to be not only witness to, but be a part of. [01:28]

David Zinger: And Angela, you know, a person just asked to visit your website, and we’ll list it at the end, to realize how many things you’re engaged in, and this being an employee engagement network, what I’d like to ask you is what are you engaged in primarily right now or what engages you the most? [01:44]

Angela Maiers: Watching people learn. I think starting my career as a kindergarten and first grade teacher, that’s what drives you everyday is to actually watch an individual discover or, you know, what I call own their genius where it isn’t just that they’ve figured out a problem. They’ve actually figured out who they are in the process of solving that problem and I get to see that with people all over the web, because they’re not just figuring out, like how do I use Twitter or how do I sign-in to a name; they’re really discovering who they are and how they’re going to share their genius with the world, and so in that context it’s brought me into multiple kinds of engagement – I’ve been engaged in blogging. Since we first connected, I cannot believe I can say this, I’ve been blogging for five years, which is crazy, and then that evolution led to Twittering, and I’m not quite pinning yet, but I’m investigating it. But I’ve been really active in the evolution of those mediums. So, when Twitter was, you know, just what did you have for breakfast, to now is really sophisticated, pre-organized, in real-time connected conversations with communities from Twitter chats, to hangouts that develop, to actual projects that ignite and form from this incredible real-time medium. [03:10]

David Zinger: So, really a sense of learning, and social. I kind of want to take it… I don’t know if we want to use the term one step deeper. [03:20]

Angela Maiers: Yeah. [03:20]

David Zinger: I watched your TED Talk fromDes Moines, and the URL is at the bottom of the slide for people who are watching this, and you really got into mattering. First off, I’d like you to just maybe talk a little bit about the TED Talk, and then I’d really like to get into how people matter and how we could look at that within the workplace. [03:41]

Angela Maiers: The talk has been something that I have been talking about and teaching for 25 years, so it isn’t just about learning; it’s like I said, understanding from your perspective what you bring to the learning and how you bring that every single time, and people don’t try new things, and they don’t want to innovate, not because they’re scared of the technology – they’re scared that they won’t be enough if they try it, that it won’t be good enough, that somebody will say that that wasn’t, you know, that wasn’t right. We have been developed and grownup in a system that doesn’t recognize failure in a way that grows us; that failure’s a bad thing and everything is about mastery, and perfection, and so you start little by little every year holding back your genius because you just start learning how to play the game and not really how to engage in life. So, I think access to incredible people doing incredible things can be both inspiring and can be a little daunting, so it was kind of a surreal experience. I actually had a different talk planned and the night before my TED Talk I watched my top 10 favorite, and I was so overwhelmed at their genius I thought oh my god, I can’t do this, I don’t matter enough. I was doing the same thing I’m telling my learners not to do, that you know, to own your genius and to know that you’re enough, and I’m like oh, I can’t, who am I to be on this stage and to be in this amazing space, and then I said I cannot look at learners any size and say I expect you to take a chance, I expect you to know that you matter, and not live up to that, and that’s sort of evolved in a deeper understanding that mattering isn’t just about trying to feel important or trying to be liked by other people; it is a biological need, it’s not an ego thing, it’s a DNA thing, and you know. [05:40]

David Zinger: It really comes down to you going a bit beyond that and helping other people recognize they matter, and also… [05:47]

Angela Maiers: Absolutely, and that’s where it speaks to what you’re working on with the Employee Engagement Network; even a deeper level beyond engagement is empowerment, and the way that we empower others and ultimately empower ourselves is by taking mattering seriously. I’ve broke that into three steps. The first step, if you will, is the act of noticing, that the act of noticing doesn’t just make you a more aware, you know, more engaged person; it actually makes you more compassionate, it makes you more able to communicate, because you automatically become empathetic when you see, and really notice, and see people for who they are and not just, you know, what they’re doing, so… [06:33]

David Zinger: So, before you go to the next one, so if we look at that in the workplace, that’s such a vital skill if you’re a manger, leader, or supervisor is not just to have the skills, but to go even more fundamental or primary than that is to notice. [06:47]

Angela Maiers: Yeah, absolutely, and young kids do that, they live their life like wide awake, and there’s certain professions that demand that. Being a writer, you know this, that you have to be disciplined about noticing, and that it doesn’t mean that what you notice at that moment you’re going to take action on, but I’ve kept a writer’s notebook my whole life and it is where ideas incubate, and where thoughts sort of formulate, and it’s the act of noticing and taking note of what you notice that actually prepares you for the work of writing and absolutely for the work of teaching. So, noticing has been a part of my discipline’s life for a long, long time, and I think that in this time where everything is grabbing our attention, we have to become very, very vigilant and discipline about pausing, and noticing, and finding ways to take note of who and what we notice, and… [07:43]

David Zinger: Because you can’t engage if you don’t have the space to notice. [07:47]

Angela Maiers: Absolutely, and you know we talk about this in brands a lot is people want automatically what’s the engagement strategy, what’s the engagement strategy or what’s my social media strategy, when the very first act is the act of listening and noticing the patterns in how your customers behave, how your clients behave, how your leaders behave, and it’s in that sort of pattern-seeking that we find a way to engage meaningfully. [08:16]

David Zinger: So, part one is noticing and then there was two more parts. [08:21]

Angela Maiers: Yeah, and then the second part is validating – using really explicit language to bring the things that you notice to the forefront, by walking up to somebody and not just saying good job very generically, or you know, way to go team, or we did it this time, but actually leading with very, very specific language that elevates their current position by bringing their attention to something they did. So, I really like the way blank or what makes you so unique is your adaptability, every time I meet somebody that is really adaptable, this is what I need from you. So, it’s giving them validation, but not general validation; being very, very specific. One of my favorite books that has sort of shaped my teaching is a book called Choice Words by Peter Johnston and it’s an education book from the anthropological perspective is how language, the language we use mediates our choice words, and our language can elevate somebody or it can empower somebody, and it’s a really simple shift, like if I say that’s a great project, I like the way you did this, switching that and saying what made this great in your eyes, what did you notice you doing differently shifts it to making the learner or the leader own their own genius and put words to that, and it really is an art; language is an art and there’s a way that when we hear certain words from people they can inspire action or they can absolutely destroy you. [10:06]

David Zinger: So, we need to notice, we need to validate and be explicit, and part three? [10:12]

Angela Maiers: Yeah, and then the last step is understanding how to make people feel essential, which actually is a lot different than trying to engage them, because you fall sort of victim or possible victim to engagement or entertainment where you always have to one-up it the next time – well, we did this for the people this time, well that’s not enough, so we’ve got to one-up it. Where understanding that you’re an essential person to the organization or to the client or to another individual has more motivation than any other thing in earth, it’s a superpower. So, when somebody says to you oh, that was great, I think you’re important, I think you’re awesome, or they say I couldn’t have done it without you, you are essential, I couldn’t imagine going through this without you here. I need you is very different from I like you or I like working with you. People want at the core, it’s the ultimate act of mattering is to know that you are essential to someone else, to know you matter to somebody else makes you step up in a way that nothing from the outside can do. [11:25]

David Zinger: So, really we may see a next generation of employee engagement morph into employee essentialism and that, based on noticing, being explicit, and really letting people know how essential they are in our organizations and our workplaces. [11:39]

Angela Maiers: Absolutely, I mean the key words when you hear that are I need you or you were missed, I mean something like that that says it didn’t go the same because you weren’t here; you’re going to step up and you will do anything to be a part of that. When you find out how and why you are essential to the world and to your community, you’ll do anything. It’s why bloggers keep blogging; I mean the majority of bloggers I know are not professional bloggers, the majority of people that spend hours, and hours, and hours curating content. The things that you do everyday on the engagement network, David, aren’t because you get a pay raise every time you Tweet something or… You know that this is essential for other people to function, and you perform that, and you step up because it matters to people, what you’re doing matters, and that’s what people really want – they not only want to know that they matter, but they want to know that their actions matter, and that they were appreciated, and that they were needed, and that’s what puts us in a constant state of improvement. [12:50]

David Zinger: OK, Angela, so we have about four more minutes and there’s eight points on your You Matter Manifesto. We’ll go through them one, like each slide, there’s two on a slide. So, I guess really what we’re looking at is maybe a sentence or two of how you might see that affecting work and the workplace. So, the first two are you are enough and you have influence. [13:13]

Angela Maiers: Yeah, I think the first one’s really important; even if you didn’t hit all 10, that people don’t give 150%, not because they’re not able to or capable to, it’s because they don’t think based on some standard in their mind or in the world that it’s going to be enough, and so we stay reserved, we don’t think we’re significant enough or that our actions matter enough, so you hear words like oh, I’m just a, you know, an intern, oh I’m just a teacher, I’m just… That word “just” is poisonous, it’s poisonous, because the moment you put that in front, you actually validate out loud that you don’t think your contribution is enough, so that’s an important one. [13:58]

David Zinger: And then secondly is that many employees feel that they have no influence, and yet you’re saying here that we all have influence. [14:05]

Angela Maiers: Absolutely, we all, and for the first time in human history, our actions matter, and not huge actions, little actions matter, and people don’t take action because they think that the action has to be gigantic, especially if it’s a really complicated problem, they think it has to be a really complex and complicated action, and that’s what we’re proving with You Matter. The action of simply just sharing two words with somebody can immediately change everything. [14:35]

David Zinger: Yeah, small can be so significant and… [14:38]

Angela Maiers: Yeah, small is the new big. [14:40]

David Zinger: And I don’t want to draw a negative, but even today, the day we’re recording this there was a Greek athlete that was removed from the Olympic Games because of one Tweet, and it just shows you the power of 140 characters. [14:55]

Angela Maiers: Wow, exactly. This next slide on the manifesto is really important, it’s a combination. People misread the word genius; they think that genius is some DNA anomaly or that, you know, it’s something that you are gifted with in a small percentage. I love the way Seth Godin defines genius – an ability for an individual to solve a problem in a way that has not yet been addressed, or to bring a perspective that has not yet been shared, or to create something that impacts and matters to someone in the world. Every single one of us have done that at one time and you are a genius is not an engagement tactic or a self-esteem tactic; it is a call to action, it’s a reminder that you have a responsibility in the 21st century to contribute something that matters. [15:45]

David Zinger: OK, so after that there’s a gift that others need, which is really in workplace that’s our work and contributions, and we can be the change. [15:55]

Angela Maiers: That’s right and that’s that sort of essential piece, Seth Godin calls it lynchpin. So, there is something that you have – an idea, a perspective, a presence, a talent, some gift that you have that only you have that others need. Your job is to notice, to listen, to learn, and to find out what are the things that others are struggling with and be that need, fulfill that need. You don’t have to fulfill all that need, but fulfill part of that need and it’s a tremendous feeling. So many people lead with the gift, like I have this, I’m going to contribute it, but they don’t attach that to how is what I’m contributing helping or moving others forward? [16:42]

David Zinger: I like the top one on this next slide – your actions define your impact, because so often you see engagement as an attitude or an emotion, and it’s partially that, but it really does come down a lot to the action or the non-action. [16:56]

Angela Maiers: Absolutely, absolutely, and that really is the evolution of the web in the world is that before your presence, your title, your past, if you will, defined your influence. Today it’s what you do now, and what you continue to do, and what you do in real-time that is being recorded and being used to define your impact not just on the web, but in the world. The commodity or the, I guess the… We’ve got all this abundance, but we have very much a scarcity of people that are courageous enough to actually take action, and you cannot take action with full capacity, fearless, bold, audacious action if you don’t believe you matter, and it comes back full circle. [17:44]

David Zinger: So, that’s all part of the You Matter Manifesto, and this is one of the pages from one of your documents that kind of sums up, but I want to ensure that before we close people know where to find you, and if they’re looking for more, you have a couple of books. They can link directly to your TED Talk and it’s really based on your name, www.AngelaMaiers.com. Any final thoughts about engagement and mattering? [18:12]

Angela Maiers: I think that even when you think that this is too simple, because we’ve been told that it takes really complex things to change the world, I would invite all your members and all their communities to just test this out, you know, prove me wrong that these two words don’t change minds, don’t change moods, don’t change the world. There’s something really spectacular about saying them and hearing them that ignites this chain of actions, and my goal with the site, which isn’t developed yet, I’m working on… Right now it’s just a dream, but I’m working on trying to crowd source, you know, genius to build this site is almost like a hard quartering for mattering, so that the moment you hear those words and you’re inspired to take action, that there’s a seamless ability for you to do that, and the actions are really your choice, and that’s why I sort of re-branded it Choose to Matter, because hearing the words and saying the words, that’s the sort of wakeup, that’s the noticing, and then from that second on the rest it up to you, what you choose to do big or small can have an impact, and can matter. It’s about you making that choice, so I think the way to start is to make a choice to use those words more frequently with one another and see what happens. [19:35]

David Zinger: Angela, thank you for spending 20 minutes with us, and you certainly matter, you certainly are essential, and you really with those concepts of mattering and essentialism raise the bar in engagement, so thanks for spending some time with us. [19:50]

Angela Maiers: Oh my gosh, my pleasure, and my honor, and David, you matter as well, so thank you again. [19:55]

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David Zinger believes that engagement matters. You are invited to engage with him for a speech, workshop, education session or consulting by contacting him at david@davidzinger.com.